the second thing slightly more technical but the best way to think about it, you can run deficits as long as your economy is growing, you can run deficits as long as what you are spending it on on average has a positive return. so wt's the debt to gdp ratio that makes sense is the one that is stable. that at a given level of growth it's not going to keep growing explosively. imagine you have a rotating credit card account. it's probably not the best idea to always be paying interest on $10,000 but on the other hand if it is an auto loan, a student loan, a fixed amount, and nobody is charging you extortion at interest, you can carry that you just don't buy three cars, you just don't keep going to school. so essentially that's the answer. and we have people at our institute, peterson institute, like a man named bill klein who have done calculation on this fothe u.s. you can probably stabilize it somewhere in the 80s. might be better if we are in the 70s but can stabilize in the 80s. >> rose: that is what we are looking to do from the near term, to stabilize. >> so it is not growing exp